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#1256 - 04/01/08 03:09 PM Anchors
Hydrophobic Offline
WI1


Registered: 02/22/08
Posts: 2
What is the latest trend for building equalized belay anchors? Is it the old twisted sling or the cordalette with the figure 8? This is a question for all you experienced grade 6 climbers. It seems to provoke much debate among my group.
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#1257 - 04/01/08 03:55 PM Re: Anchors [Re: Hydrophobic]
Spencer Cox Offline
WI5


Registered: 11/09/07
Posts: 42
Loc: Jasper / Calgary
http://www.acmgguides.com/html/tipstech/climbing_template.asp?TTNumber=25

I'm certainly not an experienced or a grade 6 climber but check out that link, pretty decent info there.

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#1258 - 04/01/08 04:43 PM Re: Anchors [Re: Spencer Cox]
Anton Offline
WI3


Registered: 11/09/07
Posts: 18
Loc: Calgary
I have climbed WI6 but won't profess to be a highly experienced grade 6 climber - as Spencer noted this subject is best addressed by the ACMG, or by the accredited guides out there. Personally I've found that Gadd's "Ice & Mixed Climbing: Modern Technique" book provides good/specific ice climbing insight, and Kathy Cosly's "Alpine Climbing: Techniques to Take You Higher" provides a broader range of alpine anchor considerations. Of course, the "The Freedom of the Hills" mountaineers bible by Joe Simpson is also a good climbers referece to have.

Check these out or perhaps spend a little more $$ and enjoy a day out with a guide - either would be worthwhile and could save your life.

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#1259 - 04/01/08 06:39 PM Re: Anchors [Re: Anton]
Cryophilic Offline
WI1


Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 2
Loc: Alberta
Hi guys. I am currently using three bomber screws equalized using a 8mm cordalette with a figure eight at the focal point. But I've heard Black Diamond did some testing and this system proved to be quite in-efficient in terms of truely equalizing the forces. I too was told that the old style "twisted sling" (that was replaced by the cordalette method) anchor faired much better in the testing. Maybe Will himself could shed some light on this? I am curious as to how he and others (who are aware of these test results) are building thier stations.
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#1262 - 04/01/08 09:15 PM Re: Anchors [Re: Cryophilic]
gmcdougall Offline
WI3


Registered: 11/22/07
Posts: 15

hey all, just my two cents.
I was originally taught to use the twisted sling with load limiter knots in it. Then I was taught not to, because it can apparently shock load the system even with the knots. and it has under certain conditions twisted itself into opening the carabiner,
Given that, the twisted sling is probably better when dealing with traverses coming into the belay and if conditions are such that things ice up and become like steel. YOu can set up a pre rigger anchor and clip it over your shoulder just like a regular shoulder length sling and because in theory it self equalizes, it is cosher.
The biggest draw back is the twisting and the risk of multiplication of forces if it blows.
An Equalized anchor tied off at an angle of 0-5' is supper solid as long as the pieces arent on the same bulge of ice. Any Anchor above 90' and the forces multiply to the individual pieces screws. hmmmmmmnn doesnt sound good. Well right.
I was informed this year in regards to this subject that there was a paper written by Iain Stewart Patterson regarding the twisted sling type of belay arrangement and that it is kosher! and maybe prefered. But This is heresay as I havent seen the paper. So who knows.
I have heard so many different views based upon who you talk to, especially among ACMG guides. That I have decided to play it case by case and rationally define my actions. Is it a straight forward anchor 2-3 screws relatively straight up? then why fuck around and why not just tie off and equalize? We all know this works so we fuck around? However if its a traverse, screws are bomber and its wet conditions then maybe ill use the pre tied twisted sling. So it depends. Sounds like a Bullshit answer but, I think it really does depend.
The main point is just not to fuck up.
It all works, just dont fuck up.

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#1263 - 04/01/08 10:42 PM Re: Anchors [Re: gmcdougall]
iggi Offline
WI4


Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Calgary, AB
http://gravsports.blogspot.com/2007/01/equalizing-belays.html
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#1266 - 04/02/08 09:42 AM Re: Anchors [Re: iggi]
Hydrophobic Offline
WI1


Registered: 02/22/08
Posts: 2
Thanks for the input everyone! I guess there is not any one perfect system that covers all scenario's. I think i'll take it case by case as suggested, doing my best to understand the physics and hope to never have the results tested.
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