JW, no issues, and yes to all of your defintions, sorry I didn't reply sooner on that but we like your definitions (Tim is currently at the table). We were thinking F@ck1ng Cool Ice really, but some of yours are better, yeah!!

JDL: Yep. Reason we didn't bolt more is 'cause it would take a bolt every 50cm to keep off the deck, seemed a bit much. We should have brought a stick clip, now that would have raised some ire, grin... Glad you're healing up, let's get out, been too long!

As typical we don't have all the info - the place looks really cool and very different from other styles. F'em all and me too! I wish i were rad!

What about Sport Ice (SI)? Sure there are some WI climbs with a bolt here or there or some fixed pins, but I've never heard of a fully bolted ice climb. Could definitely be wrong, Will you mentioned Chalice, is it fully bolted?

Anyhow, perhaps the same thing that took place on rock in the 70's and 80's is happening with ice now. Granted, sport and trad are still a little hard to define. But a gear climb with a nice bolt here or there isn't considered a sport route, its still gear. So maybe these newfangled bolted, ridiculously hard ice routes will need an SI rating?

Whatever the case, gratz Will, looks like a gnarly line

When The two steves and Blanchard put up the WI7+ on Howse Peak, no one fussed about their grades. When you did Musashi, everyone applauded, including me. How many people have repeated Mark Twight's Reality Bath? Is doing laps in Ouray for 199 times equivalent to one shot of the Infinite Spur? Tommy Caldwell wrote in Alpinist about free climbing of Nose. He said that after his repeat of Lynn Hill's free ascent, Huber put a bolt near the crux, right below the "changing corner". It totally changed the nature of that route from a 5.13 trad to a V10 problem. He was very much disagree with Huber's action.

This season I had the rare opportunity to follow Kevin Mahoney up a mixed route. It started with 10 meters of rock, then 20-meter long 2-ft slush smear of no more than 2 inch thick. He pretty much soloed up that thing. I marvel his talent. Rookies like me may give it a shot if I could clip in every body length. Most of the folks visit your site do not climb nearly as hard as you do. But it does not mean that these folks, including myself, lack the aptitude to appreciate your accomplishments. Isn't it interesting that this "spray on" has generated so much discussion? And, why?

Hi Jane, I've pm:ed you. -WG

shucks... its just getting good

F*ck.......
Some one should go climb it and down grade it. Better yet climb it on natural gear or lack there of. But until that happens, it is just speculation.
The beauty of climbing is that it is relatively personal.
To quote Mark Twight:" nothing harder than 5.6 from the guy who has never been there".
Congrats Will, gnarly route, I can honestly say I don't think many people will make the effort to go in there and if they do good on them. Until someone climbs it and down grades it, who is in the position to really comment.

The next group in there may also not be able to find the bolts anyways.... Assuming the "spray" is likely always changing.

I think it's a GREAT idea to open up new avenues for ice climbing. I applaud the effort and I'm in awe of the vision and tenacity to put up 30m worth of climbing on such terrain. As far as the grade? Who cares, anybody putting up a new route has to step back and take the 'body shots' until someone else, probably several people, climb the route. If you disagree with the rating, go climb it; until then, shut-up and sit down.

Mike S.

Well Said Oldwannabe. I'm far too young to say this but here goes. "At one time cams were considered un-ethical" I've read so articles from the 70's with authors who were dead set against cams. Progress happens and standards change That being said . . .
For the neigh-sayers. Bolting normal (ie. vertical) ice is dumb, bolting spray globules stuck to a cave roof near the deck . . . sounds like a good idea to me. Seems like Bolting right next to a good crack is dumb, bolting a climbable but otherwise blank face isn't. Sure we still have runout trad climbs, and free hanging pillars you can't bolt anyways. It's not like a few bolts in a cave ever hurt you! If they do, solo it then whine!

Great work Will, good spray. I sure wouldn't want to lead that without bolts.